TRANSITION Interview #9: With Greg VanDyne. Former Green Beret and Mental Health Advocate.
The Road to Advocacy, Mental Health, and the Resources that Exist (and Don't Exist) on Active Duty.
In part nine of the 'TRANSITION Interview Series,' I had the privilege of a candid conversation with Greg VanDyne, someone whose list of accomplishments is surpassed only by his commitment to authentic and honest mental health advocacy. Early in the conversation, it was clear the work Greg does is rooted in genuine lived experience.
Transitioning from his role as a Green Beret Medic, Greg entered into entrepreneurship starting and leading numerous ventures. He’s worked as a non-profit leader, co-founding Call Sign-22 and MedTech Militia, hosts the Harder Not Smarter Podcast and co-founded The Vetrepreneur Collective.
Greg's story is one of resilience and speaks to the long-term benefit of believing in yourself while at the same time uplifting others in their own mental health journey.
Please note that this article contains reference to suicide. The TRANSITION and the content within - is not medical advice. If you require diagnosis or treatment for a mental or physical issue or illness, please seek it from a licensed professional. If life threatening, call (800)273-8255
Thanks for doing this. I know a little about the things you're working on now, but I'm interested to know more about your back story. What year did you leave the Army?
I left active duty in 2020, so about four years ago. From there, I spent a year at 19th Group, at the Special Warfare Training Detachment, essentially running selection for the National Guard.
It felt like 'one foot in, one foot out,' and I didn't enjoy the feeling of being partially there, so after a year, I fully separated.
Got it. Where is 19th Group?
The unit itself is on Ft. Carson, but the Training Detachment is somewhere else. I won't remember the name of it, but it's out there by the Denver Airport, in the middle of nowhere—Area 51, essentially.
That's funny and very true. So tell me, in the work you do now around mental health, are there aspects of your upbringing driving that? Or is it predominantly from your time spent in the military? Perhaps both?
Oh man, that's a tough question. It may be the case that you're uncovering the answer to that question as you go. (Laughter) I know depression and anxiety run in my mom's side of the family, so there's an element there, I assume - I'm still trying to wrap my head around some of that.
One example, I've had some physical symptoms, I've had canker sores since I was in elementary school. Absolutely terrible mouth sores, to the point where sometimes I wouldn't even be able to talk.
When I started taking SSRIs (Selective Serotonin Reuptake Inhibitors), it stopped. So things like that, speak to how complex everything is, what all is at play and how much is the result of my experience in the military.
That's interesting. Has your experience with SSRI's been positive?
It's an interesting topic in and of itself; SSRIs seem to be getting a bad rap right now. Maybe rightfully so.
I've gotten the impression that for a long time, and perhaps today, physicians have been quick to prescribe SSRIs or at least make the decision to prescribe them without first experimenting with other modalities.
But they do work, they've helped me. I remember the first week I got on them, I broke down. I couldn't believe I had gone on so long feeling the way I did.
I wonder if some of that is tied to this increase in popularity we've seen with alternatives and more non-pharmacological interventions. Which in the net of it all, is great, but does the effectiveness of one modality mean the ineffectiveness of another? Sometimes, it seems as if that's the message we receive.
Absolutely. Every person is different; everyone is going to respond differently to various things.
For a while there, I threw the kitchen sink at my mental health, and I still do. I try to get as much sunlight as I can. I try to walk every day. Anything. Ice baths.
I think a lot of that stuff requires mindfulness, and by doing it, you've established a mindfulness practice, which is really helpful. Ice baths, for example, have all kinds of research on what's happening to the body, but I think a lot of it is time spent in the present moment, focused only on breathing and how cold the water is.
Is mental health something you thought about while on active duty? Has this always played a role in your life?
No, and I've been thinking about this topic a lot lately.
I'm not sure if you had anything like this, but we had a program. It was like a cognitive enhancement program for Special Operators. A team of psychologists was available to you to work on mindset performance or whatever the case may be. I think I looked at that as "woo woo" at the time. I never leveraged any of it.
I used to drink. I wouldn't say I had a drinking problem, but today, I don't drink at all, and that's had an enormous impact. I'm much more clear, never hungover, it almost feels like a cheat code.
That's not something I push on other people in my writing or the work I do, but the point is, if I had any understanding of mindfulness, the benefits of yoga, not drinking as much, I think I would've been a lot better off. It wasn't even on my radar.
Me either. So, when you decided to separate, was your plan to enter the human space? When did you decide you wanted to work in mental health advocacy?
No. I had no idea I would venture down this route.
I was a medic in the Army, so my first thought was to do something in medicine, maybe become a Physician's Assistant or get into Medical Device sales. Anyway, I ended up getting my MBA from UNC and took a job in the med device space while I was in school.
I didn't really have a vision beyond that. I thought, I'll do this med device thing, see if sales is something I enjoy. Ultimately, I realized it's not something I enjoy.
So, how did you make the switch over to advocacy, Call Sign 22, and everything else you do now?
Well, I'm doing this sales job; I'm in the middle of my MBA program and traveling a ton. Right around this time, we had our second child, my wife was dealing with post-partum depression, and I realize now I had lost contact with nearly all my buddies from the military. They were deployed, or I was too busy to keep up with them, and it was also the middle of COVID.
Anyways, I sort of hit rock bottom, had a period of suicidal ideations.
I ended up working through it, started the SSRIs, and about a year later, I had an experience where I was sharing what happened with a close friend, and I came away thinking, 'Man… I really could have used this conversation a year ago when everything was going on, and I was really down.'
So, from that experience, I started Call Sign-22, and essentially, we would run social movements.
The first one was called "Troop the line" where we challenged people to call 22 people of the course of 30 days to reconnect with people they served with.
Wow, that's a great story. Focus on the social connection piece.
Thank you. I think it's a huge part of why Veterans struggle. We all get out on our own timeline. You might stick around, but you know, the units move on, they deploy, training trips, it's very hard to maintain that social connection, especially when you have a young family.
In a lot of ways, you lose a part of your life that was arguably the most important a year earlier. Something a lot of people are willing to die for.
So that's how it all started. I also enjoyed the entrepreneurial element of it—the feeling of creating something.
And you started feeling better? Putting your energy into Call Sign-22?
Absolutely. A lot better. There's a major process of re-defining identity that seems to go on here too.
Working with Veterans again, I think that was really helpful.
I'm reading this book; I believe it's Eckhart Tolle's second book. It's all about ego, how ego tries to attach to form, and the benefits of avoiding that. I think that's something that's exacerbated in the military transition process.
Do you ever think about that?
Oh definitely. It's interesting, this topic has been a bit of a running theme in this interview series. I think ego and identity shift is some of the most challenging work you can do.
The tendency is to piece together evidence. In many cases, not all; I think this is why Ironman races are so popular, why we pursue different titles, why we pursue becoming "Vice President," or whatever the case may be. It's all evidence—clues into what your identity might be, but it's not an identity.
Another way I recognize this, guys will get out and they'll sort of maintain their identity. Continue to pursue this life as an "operator" in some sort of adjacent capacity, you know, as if they're still training for war, but they're not in the military anymore.
And to each their own, right? I certainly don't have it all figured out. I think anyone who can articulate who they are without the use of any titles; that's very impressive. It's not something you owe the world, or that I think you should even tell the world, but if you can do it, I think you find yourself in the right job, married to the right person, all this stuff.
What would you say you're most proud of in all the advocacy work that you've done?
When people reach out to me on an individual level.
"What should I do?" or they'll say, "I feel like I'm where you were a few years ago; how did you get through this or that?" Then to have them come back and say things have improved. That's been the most rewarding.
Also, helping people realize it's normal to have mental health struggles; as cliche as it sounds, it's not much different than breaking your arm.
That's amazing, and in some cases, I assume it's lifesaving. I'm sure you talk to people who are in the process of military separation, currently, do you incorporate much of your own experience when talking to those people?
I definitely do. I think the biggest problem I see is this sort of over-indexing on income. Financial security is definitely important. However, I think one of the buckets that Vets have to fill - is having some sort of connection to serving other people. Even if that's just a side gig, I think it's an aspect that has to be there.
Second to that would be something with a social connection piece. It's too much going from what exists in the military to a job where you're isolated the majority of the time, and usually, these two can be found in the same place. If you're working in the service of others, you're likely collaborating and connecting with other like-minded people.
Both of those can be hard to find in corporate jobs. A lot of times, you'll have the bureaucracy and command structure of the military without any sort of mission that you're tied to, and I think that can be really isolating.
Tell me about the Vet Collective and The Harder Not Smarter Podcast.
Sure. The Vet Collective is a network and support organization for veteran entrepreneurs. We hold monthly webinars. For example, last month, we held one on franchising, and I think the next one is on entrepreneurship through acquisition.
We bring in experts, resources, all of which help Vets either start or grow businesses. It's a place for people who've owned businesses for twenty-years, as well as people who are curious about becoming entrepreneurs.
That's great man. Very cool. I'll ask you one more, same question I've asked everyone, if you could go back and have a conversation with yourself, six-months before leaving active duty, what would you want to tell yourself.
That's a great question. There's a part of me that appreciates everything I've been through. I really like where I've ended up and I don't know if that would be possible if I hadn't struggled personally.
My life was fairly easy to a point. I didn't struggle much until the military, and even that was sort of fun. I grew up in an affluent family, had college paid for, you know? Life was easy for a long time.
So, I'm somewhat grateful that I've navigated hard times. You learn a lot about yourself when you realize, I'm struggling and I have to get myself out of it, and I think you find yourself in a better place on the other side of that.
I think I would tell myself it's going to be alright. Take things day by day.
Thanks a lot, Greg, and thanks for the work you do. I know it's helped a lot of people; it's helped me. Keep it up.